@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates Great point. This is a big reason why you can buy a Cloudron subscription (sorry if that sounds SaaS) We actually help our users if problems arise, they are not left alone with a github issue getting stale. We can do this since this is our job. As far as we can tell our userbase is happy with that service, but it is up to them to decide if it is worth of course. Paying for something doesn't mean you cannot vet the code, which seemed to be your initial argument.
@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates Thanks for your suggestions where we could improve. The existing 1-click installers are one of the main reasons why we started Cloudron, we ourselves were frustrated. Installation is just the beginning of the journey in selfhosting and not the solution for an updated, secure and reliable system. Actually most of our work goes into reliable, reproducible app updates and of course recovery in case something fails.
@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates Not sure why you assume that. We do contribute back to these projects, we also help report and triage issues upstream. Sure we would like to contribute more if we have the means. We don't think the solution for a sustainable product with support is to "sell to enterprise" or "open core" to pay for the devs to create FOSS. We don't want to change the product to focus on those and hope the rest still finds it useful enough. Ask the app devs if we eat their cake.
@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates Ah sorry for not being explicit. We believe more into source available for trust and validation reasons bundled with a business model which is sustainable to ensure continuity for users and one which does not rely on external investment or other means to pay for dev. We have seen sandstorm failing, everyone looses out.
My personal opinion: Ideally we all have the luxury to develop all this for free, but sadly at least I don't. And we have tried patreon style.
@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates Then please read my previous post in this thread about the view from our side towards their enterprise focused model which we don't see a fit for our users. Also not sure what kind of company (sales teams, ...) you envision we are. We care deeply for non-enterprise. Those have to be enabled to selfhost, an enterprise can just hire an IT team for that task.
@qrsbrwn @nextcloud @jdaviescoates with all we have discussed here and the context we have established through arguments, you might want to consider the practical implications on choosing a license and then apply that to your request about insisting on a specific license scheme and the actual motivation to do so. Things are not black or white, likely somewhere in the middle and it has to benefit the user for real through being sustainable in context.
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