"The nonviolent campaigns in the data had about a two-to-one advantage in success rate over the violent campaigns.”

This episode of the Social Science Bites talking with Erica Chenoweth about political violence and why non-violent resistance is more successful is really interesting.

If you've got 20 minutes while you're making dinner or doing some chores, I recommend giving it a listen!


@frankiesaxx Do they go into the dynamic of how effective "reasonable" resistance is depending on how much "unreasonable" resistance is going on?

They never used the terms reasonable or unreasonable resistance. I'm not sure what that is.

@frankiesaxx "moderates" and "extremists". Violence or no fits on this spectrum, I think.
@frankiesaxx Like, would the nonviolent campaigns be as effective without violent campaigns as an unspoken threat?

"[ . . . ] you can get more with a kind word and a gun than with just a kind word."

-- probably Professor Irwin Corey

@clacke It seems like the research indicates yes? It's just a short interview and I'd like to read the book, but one of the points they talked about was inclusiveness, and how more people are able to participate in nonviolent resistance movements, and the types of people that are able to participate - women and children especially - can be a factor that moderates a potentially violent response from authorities

@frankiesaxx Ok, cool. I'll listen to it and then see if I can find a longer discussion somewhere.
@frankiesaxx The first hit on her name and "podcast" "interview" was this 44 minute one:


That's from 5 years ago, so I'll listen to your more recent reference first.

@clacke yeah, she's been researching in that area for a while, I gathered from her publication dates

@frankiesaxx I listened to it, and she answers my question completely. They counted nonviolent movements with violent flanks as nonviolent, but later they also dug into the different nonviolent movements, and the pure nonviolent ones were more successful.

The critical factor is mass participation, and the violence puts people off. Plus that successful violent campaigns put violent people in charge and thus won't lead to a democratic aftermath.
@frankiesaxx And as you said in social.tchncs.de/@frankiesaxx/… , one reason mass participation is important is that it makes it more difficult for the authorities to suppress a protest when the police are seeing familiar faces in the crowd -- the pizza guy, the parent from the parent-teacher meeting, etc.

I thought it was interesting that they found a threshold for population percentage involvement that generally indicates the resistance campaign will succeed, I think it was 3.5%

Also the bit about social/media both as an effective organizing tool but also that it can create a misleading perception about the kind or preparation and organizing required for an effective resistance campaign.

@frankiesaxx The 3.5% figure is interestingly close to the 4% or 5% of the vote usually being required for a party to enter various parliaments. Perhaps it's an argument to lower it to 3% for the establishment to stave off any popular revolt and channel it into parties.
@frankiesaxx hambacherforst.org/blog/2019/0… provides a compelling countargument to Chenoweth's work, mostly by quoting a book excerpted at theanarchistlibrary.org/librar… .

Going to look for some interviews with Peter Gelderloos.

/via todon.nl/@hambibleibt/10278119…

For some reason I decided @sean might be interested in this discussion.
Refers to, but doesn't link to, www.bmartin.cc/pubs/08gm2.html (not yet read)

How nonviolence is misrepresented

Published in Gandhi Marg, volume 30, number 2, July-September 2008, pp. 235-257
Veering off track here a bit, but "Eliminating state crime by abolishing the state" is an interesting look at 5 strategies for curbing or eliminating state crime, of which Anarchism is the one most thoroughly described.

Howard Ryan, "Critique of Nonviolent Politics: From Mahatma Gandhi to the Anti-Nuclear Movement", www.bmartin.cc/pubs/peace/10Ry… (PDF)

Brian Martin, "Critique of violent rationales", a reply to Ryan, www.bmartin.cc/pubs/97BRpr.htm…
Sign in to participate in the conversation

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!