oh, didn't notice that v4 is now beta. nice.

@milan bootstrap is a real big mess. I suggest normalizer and anything else with own css/sass/less (...) and vanillaJS (!) :)

@scops yea i wanted to make the first sites bootstrap-free like months ago but not because the mess but because it's not really needed for me to use a framework and it would improve loadtimes a bit. however no time for it yet and lower priority. why is it a mess in your eyes? i am curious. :)

@milan because you have many things in it you dont use and It requires jquery. It loads much stuff for the user that isnt required. That leads to slower and heavier websites. If you want help and/or advice for web development just ping me on matrix :) and take a look on

@scops it does not require jquery, except you need jquery depending components and you can load them as parts if you prefer. and because the first thing - well ... it's a framework... xD

@milan jep but unlike in for example php all minified stuff will be loaded everytime - if used or not. At work we used bootstrap too. Now we select exactly the libs we need (in plain js) and make most stuff our own.

Ist mir auch nur zufällig aufgefallen als ich was nach gucken wollte

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