# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum You suggest not-voting is a good move, I'm all for taking a position and voting.

How does the quoted argument work in you favor?

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum You suggest not-voting is a good move, I'm all for taking a position and voting.

How does the quoted argument work in you favor?

# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum Repeating logical fallacies does not make them more compelling… especially to the people pointing them out to you.

I'm telling you that your TV is broken. Whether my TV works or not has no impact on your broken one.

Apart from that – my logic _could_ easily be twisted to your example if there ever was an serious ballot in my mail asking my opinion on genocide and I threw it away.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum Repeating logical fallacies does not make them more compelling… especially to the people pointing them out to you.

I'm telling you that your TV is broken. Whether my TV works or not has no impact on your broken one.

Apart from that – my logic _could_ easily be twisted to your example if there ever was an serious ballot in my mail asking my opinion on genocide and I threw it away.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum I'm not suggesting anything, I'm stating facts: You have a role.

It is telling how this insight comes along as moral advice to you.

The ad hominem at the end adds nothing but my disinterest in the conversation. Up your game.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum I'm not suggesting anything, I'm stating facts: You have a role.

It is telling how this insight comes along as moral advice to you.

The ad hominem at the end adds nothing but my disinterest in the conversation. Up your game.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum I don't agree with premise 1). Having a vote literally gives you a role - throwing it away part is second to that. You have a role.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum I don't agree with premise 1). Having a vote literally gives you a role - throwing it away part is second to that. You have a role.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum If that was your point I can give you that: no ONE SINGLE person is ever responsible for the outcome of a vote, that's the whole idea of it.

By having a vote you _have_ a role.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

That's exactly how morality works.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum If that was your point I can give you that: no ONE SINGLE person is ever responsible for the outcome of a vote, that's the whole idea of it.

By having a vote you _have_ a role.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

That's exactly how morality works.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@PWS_1 oft ist am Bauchgefühl ja was dran…

Hat natürlich nach Aussen auch eine Vorbildfunktion.

👎

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.de
@PWS_1 oft ist am Bauchgefühl ja was dran…

Hat natürlich nach Aussen auch eine Vorbildfunktion.

👎

# orderedItems[].object.content
@HeavenlyPossum Having a vote and not using it makes it as much of a choice as using it.

You can't pretend you had no impact in what was said when you were literally asked.

The last one does not belong. Try harder.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@HeavenlyPossum Having a vote and not using it makes it as much of a choice as using it.

You can't pretend you had no impact in what was said when you were literally asked.

The last one does not belong. Try harder.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@scottjenson @garrett Oh, technically you are 100% right!

As a designer you can just quickly find yourself in a situation where it appears like you are ordering everybody else around, as you can easily touch every aspect of the entire codebase by some "simple suggestions for a change".

I see the CEO analogy in the light of the understanding that to some degree designers plan where coders implement.

I feel with coders that perceive this as control being lost to a "nobody" from the outside.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@scottjenson @garrett Oh, technically you are 100% right!

As a designer you can just quickly find yourself in a situation where it appears like you are ordering everybody else around, as you can easily touch every aspect of the entire codebase by some "simple suggestions for a change".

I see the CEO analogy in the light of the understanding that to some degree designers plan where coders implement.

I feel with coders that perceive this as control being lost to a "nobody" from the outside.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@scottjenson @garrett What makes the analogy even more spicy: UX design is more CEO-like. That idea of a power dynamic seldomly is expected or even accepted.

Bringing it across as the new, lone designer is often close to impossible.

I feel with those devs though.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@scottjenson @garrett What makes the analogy even more spicy: UX design is more CEO-like. That idea of a power dynamic seldomly is expected or even accepted.

Bringing it across as the new, lone designer is often close to impossible.

I feel with those devs though.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@erAck maybe, but even then consistency to only stick to one paradigm would be favorable.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@erAck maybe, but even then consistency to only stick to one paradigm would be favorable.

# orderedItems[].object.content
just in case you are wondering what they look like in #inkscape 1.4

Notice how an OPEN EYE means "invisible", and an OPEN LOCK means "you can't edit"

I must have missed the day we all decided half transparent icons invert their meaning! :troll:

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
just in case you are wondering what they look like in #inkscape 1.4

Notice how an OPEN EYE means "invisible", and an OPEN LOCK means "you can't edit"

I must have missed the day we all decided half transparent icons invert their meaning! :troll:

# orderedItems[].object.content
Thinking about it again, it just boggles my mind that the #inkscape object window hide/lock icons do not work like that:

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
Thinking about it again, it just boggles my mind that the #inkscape object window hide/lock icons do not work like that:

# orderedItems[].object.attachment[].name
inkscape UI screenshot of a matrix of all combinations of objects and layers in hidden/locked and inherited hidden/locked state.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@garrett @scottjenson I often hear that one side needs to learn what the other side does and I partly disagree: we need to understand each other, I don't regard programmers grasping the basic gestalt theory - nor designers learning how to write valid html/css the solution to our problem.

Understanding motivations and constraints of foreign workflows would have a bigger impact imho.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@garrett @scottjenson I often hear that one side needs to learn what the other side does and I partly disagree: we need to understand each other, I don't regard programmers grasping the basic gestalt theory - nor designers learning how to write valid html/css the solution to our problem.

Understanding motivations and constraints of foreign workflows would have a bigger impact imho.

# orderedItems[].object.content
@scottjenson This is a fascinating concern. I've almost forgotten this can be a concern, too. But you are right. Maybe you can distill just a couple of KEY points – just for designers –, making clear what to avoid, and spend the rest of the talk on the other side? 🤷‍♂️

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@scottjenson This is a fascinating concern. I've almost forgotten this can be a concern, too. But you are right. Maybe you can distill just a couple of KEY points – just for designers –, making clear what to avoid, and spend the rest of the talk on the other side? 🤷‍♂️

# orderedItems[].object.content
@scottjenson The way I see it, the problem is to make it work *at all* – not the overall quality. My experience is that most projects just plain and simple have not the slightest clue about UX/design, let a lone a team or any kind of structured approach. The "don't fit well" is only a valuable insight when there is a good idea of what a good fit even means.

Designers need to learn, too. But they are not gatekeepers.

# orderedItems[].object.contentMap.en
@scottjenson The way I see it, the problem is to make it work *at all* – not the overall quality. My experience is that most projects just plain and simple have not the slightest clue about UX/design, let a lone a team or any kind of structured approach. The "don't fit well" is only a valuable insight when there is a good idea of what a good fit even means.

Designers need to learn, too. But they are not gatekeepers.