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#MediaDescriptions

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Replied in thread
@iFixit
and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts

You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on Hubzilla and on (streams) where I post my images.

But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field.

By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions.

In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video.

Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance.

CC: @masukomi @GunChleoc

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions
joinfediverse.wikiHubzilla - Join the Fediverse
Replied in thread
@masukomi @iFixit And this is only mostly a transcript of the spoken words.

What if someone actually took upon themselves the effort to describe a video with a timestamped/timecoded combination of visual description, spoken word transcript and non-spoken word audio description? Especially if the visual description is on the same high level of detail that's expected in the Fediverse?

CC: @GunChleoc

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
@Christopher M0YNG Just out of curiosity: What would be an appropriate textual description for a video?

A description of what the video is about?

Or a detailed, time-coded description of the actual visuals throughout the whole video plus a detailed, time-coded transcript of the audio in the video?

If the latter, what details are required, regardless of topic and content?

CC: @Stefan Bohacek

#VideoDescription #VideoDescriptions #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
@Robert Kingett, blind I don't trust anything generated. At least not with super-obscure niche content like what I post.

And audio descriptions in general are why I'll never publish videos in the Fediverse.

I'd have to go into similar detail as for my pictures, only for moving pictures plus sound plus voice-over now. My descriptions would have to be so detailed that the video would have to pause to let the audio description catch up with the visuals. In fact, the video would spend more time paused while the audio description is rambling than actually moving, and it would never spend more than a few seconds moving at a time.

For one, I would have to describe and explain what the video shows at the very same level of detailed as I describe my images. And at least once I've described one single image at such a level of detail that it'd probably take a screen reader one full hour to read the image description aloud.

Besides, I would have take into account that it's a video. Everything would need timestamps. And instead of only describing the camera position and the camera angle, I would have to describe the camera movements like so:

Seven minutes, eighteen point one three seconds. The camera quickly rotates to the left around a vertical axis through a point roughly two point four metres straight ahead of the avatar. It starts rotating from the direction in which the avatar is facing, roughly twelve degrees to the east of north. The barn which has first appeared at five minutes, fifty-two point two eight seconds comes into view again, including all decoration around it. The camera only rotates around this vertical axis and not around any horizontal axis. The avatar does not rotate with the camera.

Seven minutes, eighteen point six four seconds: The video pauses to let this description catch up.

Seven minutes, eighteen point seven one seconds: The video no longer pauses. The camera reaches a rotation angle of roughly twenty degrees to the south of west. The rotation speed of the camera slows down. It continues to rotate to the left.

Seven minutes, eighteen point nine three seconds: The video pauses to let this description catch up.

Seven minutes, nineteen point zero four seconds: The video no longer pauses. The camera stops rotating at an angle of roughly twenty-five degrees to the west of south.


That is, in order to cater to deaf-blind users, I would have to have two time codes. One, the time code of the original video, not taking the pauses into account. Two, the time code of the described video with catch-up pauses.

And the video with catch-up pauses would be dramatically longer than the original video. Ten minutes of video would take me weeks to describe, probably over a month. And it would end up many hours long, depending on how much there is to describe and explain.

So a time code in the Braille description for deaf-blind users might actually read, "Six minutes, thirty-seven point five five seconds in the original video, fourteen hours, three minutes, forty-nine point two one seconds in this described version of the video."

By the way, no, an AI can't do that.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions #AudioDescription #AudioDescriptions
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Octavia con Amore :pink_moon_and_stars: Such transcripts don't go into alt-text. I mean, into the alt-text of what should they even go?

They go into the post itself, of course. At least I hope that there's enough room for that on Funkwhale and/or Castopod. And nobody would host a podcast on Mastodon which, except for Threads, is the only Fediverse project with a 500-character limit.

As for my image descriptions, as I've said, these monsters go into the post text body. Right where you have a 500-character limit, and I don't have any limit whatsoever at all. The three links in my previous comment should demonstrate how I do it.

It isn't very accessible to have blind or visually-impaired users open a separate webpage just to have an image described, especially if they're on a phone, and they have the post with the image in one app (their Mastodon app) and the description in another (their browser). It's always best to have the image and the description in the same place.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Transcript #Transcripts #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions #Accessibility #A11y
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Octavia con Amore :pink_moon_and_stars: I'm serious in everything.

When I said I write extremely long image description, I was absolutely serious.

And just like visuals need to be described for non-sighted people, audio needs to be described for people without or with impaired hearing. At least, pure spoken word audio needs verbatim transcripts. But I'm pretty sure there are people in the Fediverse who demand written descriptions for all audio in the Fediverse.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Transcript #Transcripts #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions #Accessibility #A11y
hub.netzgemeinde.euInspector Jupiter Rowland, Scotland Yard...Taking a fully monochrome avatar to a fully monochrome place in OpenSim; CW: long (26,312 characters, including 889 characters of actual post and 25,271 characters in the image description)
Replied in thread
@Octavia con Amore :pink_moon_and_stars: Asking as someone who already writes image descriptions that exceed anything known to Mastodon by titanic magnitudes:

What would be sufficient alt-text for music? A detailed description of every bit of sound in that piece of music, interspersed with lyrics and a description of the sung melody, time-coded in both milliseconds and bars?

#AltText #MediaDescription #MediaDescriptions #Accessibility #A11y #Music
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Continued thread
This is not only useful for our disabled friends, but it is also useful for when your internet has given up on you and decides not to load the media. Yes, there are a lot of places with that problem still, and so a description of our content could make someone feel a bit better they are not left out from the content even if they cannot look at it, access it at the moment, or have limited data and are trying to survive till the next invoice. But let's also not forget to include our disabled friends, be deaf, partially hearing, blind, visually impaired, etc. Media descriptions are important and if the concept scares you, just ask for help. Many will gladly answer and help as best as they can, maybe write you a description, become friends in the process of doing so and voila! You have gotten yourselves a new friend. Even acquaintances are precious, for sometimes we don't know who'll be there for us. And with that, my conclusion is, #mediaDescriptions are important.
mastodon.tardis.pwAkkoma

How has a lack of media descriptions/alt text affected you, here as well as elsewhere on the internet (other social media, Discord servers and other chatting communities, etc.)?
(Unfortunately, the choice limit has left me unable to acknowledge those of you who are not affected by this issue. How inconvenient! I do hope you don't feel this is unfair ... :eyeless_smile: )
I have ... (Pick all that apply)
#Poll #Polls #Blind #Blindness #VisuallyImpaired #DisabilityMonth #DisabilityPrideMonth #DisabilityWrathMonth #AltText #ImageDescriptions #MediaDescriptions #accessibility #images

Continued thread

Thanks everyone!

Thanks to @t54r4n1 for showing me :help_describe: and some guidance for making descriptions, @lukethelibrarian for showing me @imagecaptionspls and #ALT4me, and @Mayana for a post linking to some CSS that, should someone be looking directly on my instance, will make it clearer that the image lacks description with a prominent border.

I'm hoping this will help make my posts more accessible from here on out.

So I upload art, but I understand the need for media descriptions.

The problem is I often don't have the spoons / capabilities to create an explanation that is clear and makes sense. Particularly if I'm especially manic/disocciated/overwhelmed/fatigued etc.

Does anyone have any tips to make this easier? I don't wish to alienate a whole section of people because of this but also don't wanna keep putting it off if there are solutions. #Accessibility #MediaDescriptions #AltText #Help #MastoHelp

Continued thread

I found out that #GaleGalligan wrote / drew another #fanMade #comic of #JonArbuckle, this time about his return to the convention circuit, and a bit of the anxiety that came with it: Jon 2, a second fancomic by gale galligan

I couldn't find image descriptions for the pages though, but I really wanted to share it. So... I wrote my own descriptions of each page and panel. Which... ehh... took far more time than I'd anticipated at first. xD

So, I hope you'll enjoy it, and that it will make it available to a wider range of people, as well as perhaps point out some details that some might've missed otherwise. It's such a heartwarming comic.

Relevant link: fixato.org/projects/described_

Gale Galliganjon 2Jon 2 2018, 19 pagesSelf-publishedA second Garfield fancomic considering the life of Jon Arbuckle, cartoonist. Buy the mini! Previous Next

Perhaps it's more of a #FedilabFeatureRequest, but personally I consider it a #FedilabBug instead:
Image / media descriptions are not visible till media have finished loading.
This hurts accessibility, especially on slow/intermittent connections, particularly when the post body doesn't give a clear description of what the image is about, and I thus don't know if I want to waste the bandwidth and time on actually loading the media.

Ideally I'd already see the description as a placeholder for the thumbnail.

#ImageDescriptions #MediaDescriptions

cc @apps@apps@toot.fedilab.app